Before his career-altering castings on This Is Us and Stranger Things, Chris Sullivan’s biggest break came courtesy of one Steven Soderbergh. In 2013, the Palm Springs-born, Sacramento-raised actor joined Soderbergh’s period medical drama, The Knick, in the series regular role of shifty ambulance driver Tom Cleary. A decade later, in the midst of the SAG-AFTRA strike and Sullivan’s 2023 run on Broadway, the prolific filmmaker called his former collaborator to offer him his most notable film role to date in an inventive supernatural thriller known as Presence. (Soderbergh acquired an interim agreement so the $2 million self-funded enterprise could film during the strike. Neon then purchased the rights out of Sundance for $5 million.)
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Penned by decorated screenwriter David Koepp, Soderbergh’s 34th feature film chronicles the Payne family as they settle into a new home following the accidental overdose of daughter Chloe’s (Callina Liang) best friend. As other challenges present themselves, Sullivan’s patriarch, Chris, is desperately trying to be the glue that holds his family together, and he gets a bit of help from the film’s fifth lead, a mysterious phantom presence. Shot entirely from the ghost’s point of view, the picture has a voyeuristic quality as if the viewer is eavesdropping on this embattled family.
With Soderbergh operating the camera in continuous takes to create the perspective of the spirit, Sullivan admits that the unconventional camera setup put him through his paces at first.
“It took the first day of shooting and a mini panic attack at the end of the day to come back the next morning and say, ‘I have to see [playback],’ because Steven doesn’t have any monitors on set,” Sullivan tells The Hollywood Reporter. “And after a couple little glimpses, I was like, ‘Oh, okay. I see what’s going on here.’ So it was a technical thing that was hard to understand since it’s never happened to me before, and it’ll probably never happen to me again.”
Refreshingly, Presence doesn’t explicitly spoon-feed the audience every answer to the questions it poses, but there are enough breadcrumbs for the viewer to do the math, something Sullivan appreciates.
“I’m a big fan of the horror-thriller genre, but its audiences, which I am a part of, tend to get patronized to a bit. The films tend to overexplain themselves for fear of losing the audience or for fear that the audience won’t be able to figure something out,” Sullivan says. “And I imagine that it happens by looking at too many opinion cards at the end of test audience viewings. But David [Koepp] took a really delicate approach to this, and he left enough vagueness to allow the audience to choose their own adventure. It’s less important that we explain everything and more important that the audience feels like they’re a collaborative part of this experience.”
Below, during a recent conversation with THR, Sullivan also discusses his low-key contribution to Better Call Saul.
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Firstly, is everything alright with you and yours amid the wildfires?
Yeah, the air quality is giving our toddlers some breathing issues, but we are in a safe area. We’re mostly just trying to figure out hcow we can show up for all our friends who’ve lost their homes.
I’m glad to hear your family was mostly unaffected, and while there’s no easy segue here, let’s set the stage for how you arrived at Presence. Coming out of a six-year commitment to This Is Us, did you purposefully avoid another potential long-term role so you could be available to do a number of different things? Or was it not that calculated?
It wasn’t that calculated. If I’m honest, the day after we wrapped This Is Us, I drove to the Fox lot to do a costume fitting for another series’ pilot that didn’t end up going. So the way these things line up is sometimes intentional, but this time I was doing a Broadway play [The Thanksgiving Play] towards the end of the strike when Steven Soderbergh called me up. I then went and had a meeting with him at his office, and that was it. I hit the ground running.
Right before that life-changing year of 2016 where you were a part of two pop culture-defining shows in This Is Us and Stranger Things, you were a regular on Soderbergh’s critical darling, The Knick. So you had history with him already, but were you still a bit surprised when he called about Presence?
Maybe not surprised, but it’s always delightful when Steven Soderbergh leaves me a message, regardless of my professional relationship with him. He’s one of the GOATs.
Your character’s name is also Chris. Is it possible that the father’s name in David Koepp’s script reminded Soderbergh of you?
I didn’t want to ask. I didn’t want to put anybody in the awkward position of having to answer the question of, “Hey, did you write this with me in mind?” I didn’t want to put anyone in the awkward position of having to say no, but this is the first time I’ve played a character with my own name. So it was strange.
You play the patriarch in a troubled family that’s settling into their new home. Chris seems to favor his daughter (Callina Liang’s Chloe), while his wife (Lucy Liu’s Rebecca) favors their star athlete son (Eddy Maday’s Tyler). What did you make of those dynamics?
Well, for one, I thought it was an interesting role reversal. Generally, the father figure is not the more emotionally available of the partners, and there were interesting conversations between Lucy and I about those stereotypes, the way we wanted to play it, the way she wanted to approach her character and what that meant for how I would play mine and vice versa. So it felt new to me, at least as far as a father being there emotionally for his daughter, while emotionally challenging his son to be a better person. It was a slightly different kind of character.
It’s intentionally vague, but did you ever ask for specifics on the legal entanglement that’s looming over the family? Or did you and Lucy come up with your own explanation?
There were some vague discussions about it, but the answer that I got from Steven was: “It doesn’t matter. It’s not important.” I’m a big fan of the horror-thriller genre, but its audiences, which I am a part of, tend to get patronized to a bit. The films tend to overexplain themselves for fear of losing the audience or for fear that the audience won’t be able to figure something out. And I imagine that it happens by looking at too many opinion cards at the end of test audience viewings. But David [Koepp] took a really delicate approach to this, and he left enough vagueness to allow the audience to choose their own adventure. It’s less important that we explain everything and more important that the audience feels like they’re a collaborative part of this experience, especially considering the angle from which the story is told.
That angle belongs to this ghostly presence that observes, and even sometimes interacts, on our behalf. To achieve that perspective, I wrongly assumed that the film consisted of mostly drone work. Instead, I read that Soderbergh operated a stabilized Sony A7 camera the entire time in slippers. Did it take you a minute to get used to that type of unconventional camera setup?
Yeah, for sure. Reading the script, I understood technically how this was going to work, but it wasn’t until the first day of shooting that I truly realized, “Okay, there’s no coverage. There’s no swapping lenses. There’s no lighting setups.” There weren’t the traditional things that would happen in a film, which was not necessarily surprising having worked with Steven before, but it was truly the theatrical nature of these scenes. Since there was no coverage, there was also no editing. It was all from this single perspective. So it took the first day of shooting and a mini panic attack at the end of the day to come back the next morning and say, “I have to see this,” because Steven doesn’t have any monitors on set. There’s only what he sees on the camera and whoever is pulling focus for him. So I was like, “I need to see some playback. I have to see what a 14 millimeter lens is doing to this space so that I can adjust to living in this unique experience.” And after a couple little glimpses, I was like, “Oh, okay. I see what’s going on here.”
But I had to be reminded a couple of times. As far as I could tell, I wasn’t even on camera during that family argument scene out on the back deck. I was all the way off to one side, and Steven was like, “No, you have to be still because you are going to be the biggest thing on screen.” So it was a technical thing that was hard to understand since it’s never happened to me before, and it’ll probably never happen to me again.
The film was shot and assembled in 11 days. Were you able to watch a rough cut before you flew home?
No, I knew that there was still plenty of work to be done, so I didn’t request a link. Back when we were doing The Knick, Steven used to send us rough cuts of scenes that he was really into, and that was always exciting.
Did the cast swap ghost stories during filming?
Oh, sure. Callina, Eddy and West [Mulholland] actually had some interesting experiences at our hotel, and we all thought the house was a little [haunted]. It’s definitely old. It’s definitely from a different time, structurally. There’s a butler’s pantry, a servant’s quarters and a servant’s staircase. In those old houses, there’s essentially a staircase in the kitchen that parallels the main staircase, and the whole house felt labyrinthian and odd. So, yeah, I’ve had a few unexplainable experiences in my life, and it’s more fun when you believe. My favorite show growing up was The X-Files, so I was groomed for this one.
The X-Files is a fitting reference for where this interview is headed. Anyway, if I had to perform the line, “It wouldn’t kill you to stand up for her one time,” from that aforementioned argument scene, I’d probably lean into it more than I should. I’d have a hard time separating what I know and what my character knows. Did you dwell on how you would deliver that line?
In the moment, probably not, but I definitely recognized that line as I was reading the script. So the closest I came to overthinking it was as I was reading the script. I told myself, “Okay, definitely don’t overthink that moment. Just let it live as a moment between a father and a son, and the rest will play out.”
Presence reminded me a lot of what Soderbergh was exploring with Michael Douglas’ character’s daughter in Traffic. Every parent has these fears, but as a father to two young kids, did this material hit you harder than it would have ten years ago?
Certainly. Now that I have both a son and a daughter, my life has a whole new level of possibilities to be afraid of, so it definitely hits differently.
I now want to discuss a role that will likely define your legacy. It’s one that’s near and dear to so many including myself. Of course, I’m talking about “Mike Bearmantraut,” the fact-checker on the Better Call Saul Insider Podcast.
(Sullivan, expecting to hear something else, laughs heartily.) You know Mike, huh?
Who doesn’t? So you go way back with Saul’s editor and podcast host/producer Chris McCaleb? You were college friends?
Yeah, not only do we go way back, he helped me prepare for my first professional job as a theater actor. We also used to make short films when we were newly out of college and out of work. So we’ve spent a lot of time hanging out, and I was just at his wedding a couple of months ago. We’re still friends, and he’s one of the good ones.
For the uninitiated readers, there was a big stuffed bear at the Better Call Saul office, and they nicknamed it Mike Bearmantraut in honor of Jonathan Banks’ character, Mike Ehrmantraut. So somebody, presumably Chris, had the bright idea to have you bring Mike to life as a fact-checker character on their official podcast.
Yeah, that was Chris. They were so in the soup making and writing the show that, oftentimes, people on the podcast would not remember a name. So they started jokingly throwing to the bear and being like, “Mike, do you have any idea? What was the name of that actor who had that one scene? What was his name?” Chris McCaleb then had the idea to have me come in after the fact. He would just send me lines of things to record, and he’d slip them into the podcast.
Having edited hundreds of podcasts, that’s a tedious process. Did it come together pretty last minute in a lot of cases?
Oh, sure. He would send me a text message with the lines, and wherever I was in the world, I’d slip into a closet with my iPhone and do a quick voice memo for him.
It was mostly an ADR-type role, but you also attended one of the recordings in person, right?
Yeah, towards the end, I got to sit in on one of the last episodes. I’m not sure how Bob Odenkirk felt about it. I’m not sure if he quite understood what the hell was going on, but I committed nonetheless.
Have you gotten the call yet about reprising Mike Bearmantraut for the podcast that’s tied to Vince Gilligan’s upcoming Apple TV+ series?
No, I have not. I’ll have to talk to Chris McCaleb. I don’t know if he is running it or not, but I’m around if he’s reading this. Mike is ready.
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Presence is now playing in movie theaters.
